Sunday Times 2
Modi’s reign like rain for all, says Shiv Sena advisor
| The incident this week of angry Shiv Sena MPs force-feeding a chapatti on a fasting Muslim caterer in Maharashtra has heightened minority fears that India’s right wing Hindu groups are becoming more assertive under the pro-Hindu Bharatiya Janatha Party government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Amid such fears, the Sunday Times speaks to a top Shiv Sena member and former union minister, Suresh Prabhu, widely regarded as a future leader of India.In this Q&A, Mr. Prabhu, who was recently appointed by Mr. Modi as the head of the ‘Advisory Group for Integrated Development of Power, Coal and Renewable Energy’, rejects allegations that the BJP, Shiv Sena and other right wing Hindu groups (please see box on Page 8 ) are anti-Muslim or anti-minority.He says the charge that Mr. Modi is being influenced by the Hindutva ideology is part of false propaganda and deliberately floated by the so-called secular parties to mislead the masses.
Mr. Prabhu says a government should be like the rain that does not discriminate against any people when it falls. |
Mr. Modi was an active Shiv Sena member and probably still sympathises with the group’s Hindutva ideology. Now that he has become prime minister of the world’s largest democracy, do you think that Shiv Sena should help him keep religion out of party politics, as democracy demands?
Under the Indian, constitution we are supposed to respect all religions. Particularly those who take the oath under the constitution to hold the office of prime minister, the chief minister and similar positions, have to follow the principles of the constitution which is clear that they have to respect all religions. They cannot prefer one religion over another. Respect all religions at the same time. One could be religious in his private life. But if you are a holder of public office, you have to respect all religions.
If you look at Mr. Modi’s track record as chief minister of Guajarat, he had been doing that. In the last few months of the campaign he had been conducting various programmes called Sathbavana Yathras aimed at creating goodwill among all.
Dr. Suresh Prabhu: We should unite the people and not divide the people in the name of religion. Pix by M. D. Nissanka
Unfortunately there has been misinformation, most of it deliberate and aimed at tarnishing his image. When he was the chief minister, they saw him as a strong political leader and began a vicious campaign. Subsequently when he was nominated as the BJP’s prime ministerial candidate, this vicious campaign became far more devious and for a while people got carried away with that. But later on when the people realised that the labels such as fanatic and extremist attached to his name were not factual, they rallied round him. He even won a substantial number of minority votes at the Lok Sabha elections. This shows he is popular with all communities in India.
His message is clear. He has been saying development for all should benefit all segments of society irrespective of religion. More than any other leader, Modi is a champion of development and democracy. But the opposition has deliberately used religion as a means to divide society under the garb of secularism. The so-called secularists have been rejected by the people for this very reason. Even the minorities have realised they are being used and abused. A minority community leader has accused them of hiding behind the garb of secularism and creating confusion.
So Mr. Modi does not believe in the false notion of dividing people in the name of religion. He believes that society must progress together. The charge that he is being influenced by the Hindutva ideology is part of false propaganda and is deliberately floated to mislead the people. Fortunately the people had seen through their scheme and the election results bear testimony to it. We should unite the people and not divide the people in the name of religion.
- Do you mean he should be toeing a secular line as prime minister?
He is more secular than any other prime minister of India. He is not using a false notion of religion to be in power. If you are using religion, whatever it may be, to get votes and divide society and in the process you try to remain in power, then you are abusing your religion. Mr. Modi is doing exactly the opposite. He did not talk about religion during his campaign. His only plank or platform was development.
Yet, some people are talking about what is happening to India’s relationship with Pakistan and Bangladesh — Muslim countries. Our relationship with Pakistan and Bangladesh I would not say is the best but is far better now than it was under the previous government which ruled for ten years. What does it mean? Whose initiative was it? It was the initiative of the prime minister himself. Our foreign minister went to Dhaka recently. We had leaders of both Pakistan and Bangladesh along with your president and other leaders from SAARC countries and Mauritius for the swearing-in ceremony. By this action he made a substantial statement that his government wants to develop close relationship with India’s neighbours. We did not invite the leaders of the US, the UK, Japan or China. We invited our close neighbours.
- But China is also your neighbour?
But we did not invite China for the simple reason that we have a different relationship with China. It was a clear message that it is not the economic power of a country that matters in our relationships but it is our real genuine belief in our neighbours with whom we have a lot of shared ideology, shared culture and shared history and that’s the reason why we should be together.
Although Mr. Modi during the campaign condemned anti-Muslim remarks made by allies such as the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), it is feared that Hindu right wing groups will be emboldened to take the law into their own hands and go after the minorities because it is their man in power now?
We should judge him not by apprehensions but by the reality on the ground. If you take Gujarat, there was of course one unfortunate communal riot which we all condemn and feel sad about. After that, in Gujarat there has not been a single communal riot. If you look at the 11 years of Modi’s chiefministership, the first riot took place in 2002 in the first few weeks of his becoming the chief minister. But since he gained the complete reins of power in Gujarat, there has not been a single communal riot. As opposed to that, you take Uttar Pradesh ruled by the Samajwadi Party, which was supposed to be pro-Muslim, or other states ruled by the Congress or the so-called secular parties. The Muslims in these states are saying they have been butchered. So what could be the reason? Therefore the Muslims and minorities have no reason to fear. They are realising they will be participating in this process of development. The younger generation is realising there has been a big ploy to divide the people in the name of religion for political reasons to get votes. The so-called secular parties have exploited them. This is the case. Of the 67 years since independence, the Congress, the so-called secular party, has ruled India for 60 years. The Congress itself commissioned the Sachar committee report which said the Muslims had been far more discriminated against? What is the reason for it? Is it Modi who is responsible for Muslim backwardness? Modi did not rule India for 60 years. Then whose responsibility is it?
-There is no Muslim MP on the Govt side in parliament.
But we have in the cabinet a Muslim lady, Najma Heptulla. Her grandfather was Maulana Abul Kalam Azad who fought for freedom. He was a great statesman. He never wanted partition. Because he felt that partition was not in the interest of the Muslims themselves. Many Muslims in India also believe this and in Pakistan also. See what is happening in Pakistan. The Shias, the Ahmadis and other minorities within the Muslim society are persecuted.
-There are charges that Mr. Modi’s development programme in Gujarat had a Hindu bias, with the Muslim majority areas such as Juhapura being discriminated against and Muslims complaining about a discriminatory land policy. Will Mr. Modi take this Gujarat example and expand it to the whole of India?
This is again a wrong conclusion being drawn based on completely illogical facts. You know, so many Muslims from Gujarat campaigned for Modi, nationally. One Gujarati Muslim businessman, who had filed a case against Modi in the Supreme Court, withdrew the case after he realised the facts. Another Gujarati Muslim lady is now a spokesperson for the BJP. She was saying the same thing that she was so scared by the BJP propaganda but then she realised subsequently there was nothing to fear. I think you should judge Mr. Modi as a chief minister or prime minister by his actions. You should not judge him on the basis of what the opponents want to ascribe certain wrongdoings which he has never committed.
- If that is so, should not the BJP take the initiative to address Muslim backwardness?
It is wrong to believe that we have to work for only one community. This is wrong whether it is the minority or the majority community. The state policy, the Constitution of India, clearly says, work for everybody irrespective of religion. If you want to prove that you are going to work for a particular community, then you are creating a rift in society. And that is not good for the minority community. And if the majority community people begin to feel that they are discriminated against for the benefit of somebody else, then the opposite of the intended policy could happen. Therefore what is important is work for all and this is what Mr. Modi is talking about: Irrespective of your community, irrespective of your religion, we will work for you and that is the only way that it can happen. When rain falls, rain does not fall more in a Muslim community than in a Hindu community. It does not happen that way. Divine blessings when they come in the form of rain, come for everybody. So why should the state policy be not like rain for everybody’s benefit? The rain does not change its course because it is falling on a minority community. Why cannot the state policy be like this?
- The BJP Govt is trying to implement a Uniform Civil Code (UCC). There is concern, especially among the Muslims,
Dr. Suresh Prabhu: No Hindu bias in Modi’s government
and also other minorities that Personal Laws in India are being tampered with under this Hindutva agenda.
This is an issue which needs a lot of discussion and deliberation. Personal laws are sacred to people. Even for Hindus, there are a lot of personal laws — personal laws decide on marriage, property and inter-community relationship. So we need to deliberate on it a lot. We should do it at a mature time when people realise the need for uniformity. Again it should not be the source of division but a source of unification. Years ago, Shah Banu, a Muslim lady, went to court, demanding alimony when her husband divorced her. I must admire her courage that she went all the way to the Supreme Court. She fought not only for her own rights but for the rights of her community.Such voices need to be recognised but at the same time creating something which will not be acceptable to the communities themselves should not be the case. It should be done in a proper sense of understanding in the mind. Do it in a mature time when it will produce results rather than divide. Listen to the voices within different communities. For instance, abortion and the right to life are important issues for the Christians. We should realise that there are different sects, different beliefs and different ideas. So rather than pushing it down the throat we should do it after creating awareness and at the right time. Timing is important. If you do it when there is more acceptability, people will be more than happy to take it.
- Mr. Modi has admitted the existence of fear among Muslims and extended a hand of friendship and new partnership in talks with India’s Muslim leaders. How do Shiv Sena and other rightwing groups see this?
One must recognise that the minorities have certain rights and opinions. Similarly, different parties and organisations have different ideologies. They will continue to have their different ideologies and they have their right to propagate their own ideas. But the prime minister of India is the custodian of the state, the head of the government and is bound by the Constitution and his own beliefs and that shows what Mr. Modi stands for. Mr. Modi is a tall leader, not for one community or one state but he is a leader of the country.Therefore as head of the government he has to talk to everybody and everybody’s interest should be at his heart. Some groups may like it; some may not. But as prime minister of India his job is to ensure he is for everybody.
It is a misconception that the RSS and Shiv Sena are anti-Muslim. These organisations say that those who were born in India irrespective of their religion are Indians and when we are all Indians let us be loyal to our own country. If someone irrespective of his religion is an Indian and who has allegiance to some other country, say Russia for example, then he cannot be Indian. I think there is nothing wrong in having this feeling.
Why has this particular ideology become stronger? You must look at history. The change does not happen overnight. India is one country which has suffered aggression most. We have been attacked, captured and ruled not by the British alone. We were ruled by the Muslims for centuries. At different times, we had been attacked by Alexander’s army, the Moguls and the Afghans. So much of foreign rule: We were colonized by the Portuguese, the Dutch and the British in addition to the French who occupied Goa and Pondicherry.
Because of this huge aggression from Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Afghanistan, there has been a lot of foreign influence.Most of them, when they came here, converted the locals. The Europeans converted the people to Christianity and the Muslims converted people to Islam. As a consequence, what has happened is there is some sort of confusion in the minds of society as to where allegiance lies. So the RSS is saying that the conversion has happened and that is a reality. But now we are Indians and our fate is in India and our future lies in India and why not we become loyal to India? I don’t think there is anything beyond that. They are not anti-Muslim as such. But they think those who believe in not giving allegiance to the country are not Indians. It could be even Hindus. So I don’t think there is anything beyond this. The Muslims also have begun to realise this: ‘This is my country; my future is here; why should I fight with the Hindus over something that had happened way back in history. This is nothing to do with me’. I would feel that with Mr. Modi becoming prime minister, communal understanding will grow far more than during the previous government. The whole idea of the previous government was to divide in the name of religion. In fact the minority leaders were saying ‘they talked about minority minority, but what did they give us.’
- Calls continue even now that Mr. Modi must apologise for the massacre of Muslims in Gujarat under his watch. Should he?
There have been many elections since then. In Gujarat there had been three elections after that. We have just concluded a national election. The call for apology is deliberately raised by those who don’t want people to forget it. This was a most unfortunate incident not just for Gujarat but for India. All of us want to make sure that such incidents do not take place at any time. I think we have moved on from there.
- There will be elections in the Shiv Sena stronghold of Maharashtra in September: There are reports that the BJP wants to go it alone without forming an alliance with Shiv Sena and test its strength.
There is nothing wrong for any political party to have its own aspirations. Each political party’s aspirations are different. If these aspirations are the same, then the two parties are one party.
But the fact is these two parties feel that they can grow together faster. That is the reason why the BJP and Shiv Sena have been in alliance for the past 25 years. Then again, there are aspirations of party workers on the ground. Each party worker thinks the party should contest alone. If there is an alliance, the seats would be shared. I think over a period of time, the BJP-Shiv Sena alliance should mature much stronger. I think they will fight the elections together.
(Next week: Dr. Suresh Prabhu’s views on India’s foreign policy and Modi’s development programme)
| Right wing Hindu groupsShiv SenaShiv Sena means the Army of Shivaji, a 17th century Marathi warrior king. It is a Hindu nationalist political organisation founded on June 19, 1966 by political cartoonist Bal Thackeray. The party originally emerged from a movement in Mumbai demanding preferential treatment for Maharashtrians over migrants to the city. It is currently headed by Thackeray’s son, Uddhav Thackeray. The group has been linked directly with several communal riots, including the infamous 1992-1993 Bombay riots. Although the party’s stronghold is still in Maharashtra, it seeks to expand to other states in India. Promoting a broader Hindu nationalist agenda, it has aligned itself with the Bharatiya Janata Party and it is a constituent party in the National Democratic Alliance coalition of Prime Minister Narendra Modi. RSS Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) means the ‘National Volunteer Organization’. It is a charitable organisation and Hindu nationalist group. RSS states that its ideology is based on the principle of selfless service to the nation. The RSS was founded in 1925 as an educational group to train Hindu men by character-building to unite the Hindu community, counter British colonialism in India, and suppress Muslim separatism. Since its foundation it has espoused a Hindu nationalist agenda. Although, the groups says its ideals are to upholding Indian culture and its civilisation values, its members have been accused of taking part in communal riots against India’s Muslims and Christians. Nathuram Godse, who killed Mahathma Gandhi was a former RSS member. The group was banned after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in 1992. The ban was subsequently lifted. The BJP’s Atal Behari Vajpayee was the first RSS member to become the prime minister of India. VHP Vishva Hindu Parisad (World Hindu Council) is a Hindu right-wing organisation in India and is based on the ideology of Hindutva. It was founded in 1964 and its main objective is “to organise, consolidate the Hindu society and to serve, protect the Hindu Dharma.” The VHP belongs to the Sangh Parivar, an umbrella of Hindu nationalist organisations. It has been involved in social service projects, construction and renovation of Hindu temples and in issues such as cow slaughter, conversions to other religions, the Ayodhya dispute and its role in the Babri Masjid demolition. The VHP has been involved in converting Christian tribals to Hinduism, including some reports of forced conversions and violence in 2004 and 2008. Sangh Parivar The Sangh Parivar (Family of Organisations) refers to the family of organisations of Hindu nationalists which have been started by members of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) or are inspired by its ideas. The Sangh Parivar represents the Hindu nationalist movement. It includes the RSS and several dozen smaller organisations, whose members’ expressed opinions have been diverse over a range of topics. Nominally, the different organisations within the Sangh Parivar run independently. – Source Wikipedia
They came for BCIS seminar on “India Under Modi” Dr. Suresh Prabhu, a former Union Minister under the Vajpayee Government and a member of the Shiv Sena, was a member of a BJP delegation that visited Sri Lanka this week for a panel discussion on ‘India under Modi: Relevance for the Region and the World’. Organised by the Bandaranaike Centre for International Studies, the event was moderated by former foreign secretary HMGS Palihakkara with BCIS Board Chairman Sunimal Fernando introducing the panelists. The Indian delegation was led by Dr. Subramaniam Swamy, former Union Cabinet Minister & Chairman of BJP Committee for Strategic Action and also included, Prof. Madhav Das Nalapath of Manipal University; Dr. Swapan Dasgupta, senior journalist and political commentator; and Dr. Seshadri Chari, RSS member and National Convenor of the Foreign Policy cell of the BJP. |