Shoba De, variously described as India's best selling writer, was in Colombo last week to launch her new book "Surviving Men." The former Pond's girl now turned writer, is a potboiler specialist who claims to be "up-front''. Her books, such as "Strange Obsession'' "Starry Nights" etc., have been available for sometime now in Colombo's bookshops. De, who promised a no-holds-barred conversation granted this interview, minutes before she faced the press at one of the scenic seaside lounges of Mt Lavinia Hotel.
I was speaking to one of your publishers last year. I vaguely remember him telling me that he doesn't know for what reasons your books sell......
Hmm. He should know for what reasons my books sell. It's the publisher's job to know why they sell. He should have his finger on the pulse of the market.
Why do you think they sell? What's your own assessment of it?
I think they sell because they are the first contemporary books out of India. Second because there was no market for women's writing. We created a market. In that sense we have been path breakers ( Penguin India and me) and we paved the way for other women writers.
So you classify these as women's writing?
No I don't. But because of the commercial successes of these books, other publishers are willing to take chances with women. But gender should not come into it. I don't like that.
Do you mind if I ask you some blunt questions?
Such as.....
I've read some of your books, and frankly I think they are merely an excuse for pornography...
Well, I think that for a man who is living in the nineties, this is a rather surprising observation. We are not living in Victorian England, and I don't see why I should not deal with sex in a very up front way. Men are never asked to justify whatever they choose to highlight in their work. Male artists are never asked why they draw nude women. I don't see why I should even be answering this question. I write the books that I'm used to writing, and if they have problems accepting them, I think that's their responsibility.
But how would you classify your own books?
I think they are very contemporary books, and when sex is dealt with in a way that is very non- hypocritical , it is possible that in a very repressed society like ours this can be labeled various things. I think the easiest thing to do to put down a woman is to dismiss her as being a pornographic writer.
It has got nothing to do with the fact that you are a woman....
I think it has everything to do with the fact that I'm a woman.
Well, not with me. If a man writes something that is obviously pornographic, I would say the same thing.
How does one even define pornography?
You can couch it in a lot of sophistry and casuistry, but the fact remains that when books are obviously written to cater to prurient tastes to make money, then they are pornographic.
How do you know what my intentions are and why I'm writing?
That's why I'm asking you?
Whether they are to make money? One I do not live off my earnings fortunately. I have a husband who is affluent enough to support me and my very large family. So I don't have to peddle any kind of a marketplace. I choose to write these books and I have my own kind of reasons for writing these books.
So what are your reasons?
I'm not interested in writing sanitized books about women suffering from oppression and repression because it is more palatable to society at large. I want to write the books that are within me, that I wish to write. If readers buy them, then that's great. But every writer basically writes to be read. If you want to write private kinds of writings, you would write personal diaries
There used to be an editor in Sri Lanka, one of the country's preeminent journalists by the name of Tarzie Vittachi, who used to say that to give the reader what he wants is the last resort of the pornographer. He really did use the very same words. You are saying "the reader wants it, so therefore I write''.
I didn't say because the reader wants it. I'm saying I write the books that I wish to write. This was the book (pointing to Strange Obsession, her book that's on the table') that was on my mind at that time. So I don't see any reason to feel apologetic about it or defensive about it. I see myself in contemporary terms. I don't see anything offensive or pornographic about the contents of my books.
Don't you feel that you have a responsibility towards society, towards your reader as well?
I am not a social reformer, and these are not message books.
You don't have to be a social reformer. People buy these books.... they read these books. Young - people buy these books. Don't you think that you have to be a little less cavalier in your attitude?
I don't think any young person becomes a sex maniac after reading my books
How do you know that?
Well, not that I know of. I haven't conducted a research on that subject, but not that I know of.
You wouldn't know of course, and it's easy to say you don't know
You read Henry Miller, and I don't think you become a pornographer or a child molester after reading Henry Miller. Henry Miller was accused of being a pornographer in his time, but I think at the end of the day history, that is always the best judge.
Are you comparing yourself to Henry Miller?
I'm not comparing myself. I'm saying there are writers and writers, I have absolutely no pretensions, I write the books that I want to write, if they are accepted on whatever level that's fine by me. I'm not saying that I should be compared with someone else. I'm saying that each era has its own definition and moral code and when any person sticks his or her neck out and takes a position that is not conformist he is risking being labelled all kinds of things. But I'm not afraid to stick my neck out.
The flip side of it is that you could always use that argument to justify things that are repugnant; which are repugnant to simple values and good taste.
If the reader thinks it's repugnant to them, let the readers reject it.
Some of the readers have not got that kind of choice. How about young people who are thirteen or fourteen.. they wouldn't have that kind of information or discerning mind to make a good choice
I'm not holding a gun to somebody's head and saying buy these books. A thirteen year old will not be spending two to three hundred rupees to buy a book, they will be watching television. I don't think reading books is their priority. If they are looking for prurient stuff, there are any number of books and magazines to cater to those kinds of tastes, and I really see no danger to society at large through these books. I think it seems very "retro'' to think like that.
It may be retro by your standards, but people have their own opinions. For instance, a person who is used to wearing fur will say "it is our choice, and its very retro to say that people should not have the choice to wear fur.'' But the animal rights activists will know better.
We live in a democracy, and just as I have a right to publish the kind of books that I want, the readers have a right to think whatever of the books I write. They have a right to reject it, condemn it enjoy it or do whatever they like with it. Nobody can decide on their behalf. That is really what democracy is about.
You have to be responsible in a democracy as well, don't you think? You can't say "democracy'' and use it as an excuse to publish and be damned.... democracy is certainly not the freedom of the wild ass.
I don't think that I'm writing anything that is going to lead to rioting in the streets.
No, I'm not saying that. But there are things that are much worse than rioting in the streets. But don't you feel your books adolescent minds and impart the wrong values.
I don't see my books in this context at all. They wouldn't be on the curriculum of various universities if they were of that type. If they were seen as pornography, the London University or the Bombay University wou-ldn't have it on their curriculum.
They probably have them as examples of pornography.
I don't understand why you assume such a hostile stance.
It's not hostile. As much as you advocate the freedom to write, I advocate the freedom to ask you questions.
This seems to be the only thing on your mind, and this is the only thing you want to talk about. In which case I have said my piece and we may as well end the interview here.
It has to be comprehensive if its an interview. I have other things to ask you.
You seem to have come with a one point agenda. You can't get off the track. I have answered in every possible way. It's a waste of time. I'm bored answering all these questions.
I'm not talking here about pornography only. To your self-serving argument of being a nonconformist, I can only say that my grouse with the pornography in your books is not because of the pornography itself, but because it makes your books so inane. Let me for example read from page 65 of your book Strange Obsessions. It is only one of a thousand random examples. (And I'm not talking pornography here) " Minx pulled out a vial. She then chucked it into the sea. Amritha looked puzzled as she did not know what the vial contained. Acid baby acid. It's easy to carry, it's easy to store, no hassles. It does the job thoroughly and cleanly ......"" You write about somebody throwing acid at somebody else in such an inane out of context way....
You come with preconceived ideas, you prejudge me, you prejudge my books... then why don't you just go ahead and write whatever you want... there is no point talking to me about it..
What have you got to say, or do you have nothing to say? Are your books inane or not?
I'm not in a court of law, somebody passing judgment and I having to justify my writing.
I'm not asking you to justify anything, that's the way you see it. This is not an inquisition or something like that, I'm merely asking you a very simple clear question. Are your books inane or not?
It's not inane to me. It's completely valid in my book.
Have you had similar reactions in India, or rave reviews or what?
I don't care whether I have raves or don't have raves. I'm not here to project myself as anything. I write the kind of books I like, and I like to write, and am not going to seek approval from any critic or novelist. That's it.
So your new book, Surviving Men. On what basis have you got the information. Through experience?
Well, you'll have to read the book before you talk.
Well I have read extracts and I think that's good enough. For instance let's take the part " Let's go fishing" or whatever. You seem to be very anti-men there,. You seem to think men are bad news. Is this by experience . You called me retro, but you seem to have a very bad opinion of men.
Any writer gets his or her opinions from her head.
Well, is it from your experience that you got these things into your head?
What exactly are you asking me?
Were these things that you wrote in your latest book from experience or not?
Well, every thing you write is from observation, from intuition and from imagination. I've been watching people. That's my answer.
Yes, but is it from personal experience?
I said what I wanted to say on that. Whether it is from personal or impersonal experience doesn't concern anybody
Well why not? You say you are up front. If it's your personal experience, say it.
You don't ask a science fiction writer "have you been to the moon or not''. I don't see why I should be answering these stupid questions.
Well I'll be bats to ask a science fiction writer whether he has been to the moon, but you are writing these books with your feet firmly on the ground, so I might as well ask.
It is a series of essays, you may agree with them, you may not agree with them , its one woman's point of view.
It's irrelevant whether I agree with them or not. Anyway, I was talking to your publisher, and he was saying that your books are bad books, and bad books sell and they have to be published in order to fund the good books.
I have never heard him say such a thing, and I don't see why I should take your word for it.
I don't lie.
I don't know you.
If he said such a thing, how would you reply?
Its a hypothetical thing, and I don't see why I should respond to it. I think you should get him to go on record on that.
Well, I have him on record on a interview I did with him. Maybe I should show it to you. Do you think there is a preponderance of men readers or a preponderance of women readers for your books?
I can't say. I haven't done a market survey on that.
You did say you are some kind of women's writer at the beginning of this interview
I said I'm perceived as that. People seem to always make that distinction. I don't see myself as a women's writer, I see myself just as a writer.
So you see yourself as a literary writer.
I don't believe in labels. I write because I enjoy writing and I don't like to be categorized.
If you write because you enjoy writing, why do you want to have your books published?
I write because people enjoy my books and I enjoy the pursuit of writing. Otherwise I would write my own personal diaries.
So you said you write only because you enjoy writing, but also you want to be published.
It's both. I enjoy feed back.
So you seem to enjoy only positive feedback. You don't seem to enjoy negative feedback.
I enjoy fair feedback. I feel bored dealing with closed minds.
You don't have to answer this, but being bored is obviously a convenient excuse. When it's unpleasant to you, you say you are bored.
Well, if you feel my books are so unpleasant to you, then why do you want to interview me. If they are so inane and so pornographic, why do you want to interview me.
Its precisely because I feel all the things you specified that I want to interview you. I think that kind of inanity should not get a free ride.
Maybe David had rejected the manuscripts you might have read.
Oh no, I've read your books.
You've come with the interview written in your head. Why are we wasting each others' time.
I haven't written anything in my head, I'm just trying to find out what's in your head.
You talk about my being prejudiced, but your prejudice and your insularity is very shocking. You say that you are open minded, that you are up front, that you write this and that and you are not retro. That you are "in'' with the times. But when you are asked a few questions you retreat into a shell and you think I'm the enemy. You are closed as this book is.
So, if there are two closed minds, let's finish the interview.
Sure, if that's your choice. I got what I wanted.
Continue to Plus page 2 - The need of the hour * That long road to justice
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